Anyone tried any digital 446 sets yet?

Joined: 30 Sep 2005 Posts: 627

Subject line says it all.

Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 304 Location: IO91wc

Can any one afford two so they can play?

Get your orders in now as they'll be legal from 8 December 2006.

Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 157 Location: Shetland

No they won't.

See yesterday's post of the Ofcom announcement in the "Ofcom" thread, also copied below.

Ian Anderson
SIBC

1.4 As a consequence of the Commission’s detailed opinions, Ofcom cannot finalise and publish the IRs relating to digital PMR 446 and HDFSS. IRs are an integral element of the overall legislative package since the Regulations refer to them, thus a delay to the IRs would also delay the Regulations themselves. In order to avoid this delay extending to all the equipment proposed for exemption in the Regulations, Ofcom has removed these two technologies from the scope of the Regulations. The exemption of digital PMR 446 and HDFSS equipment will now be taken forward separately in the New Year following an analysis of the concerns raised by the Commission.

Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 9

I popped into Martin Lynch today to look at something else and they had a pair of the new Icom Digital PMR radios. They look and feel very high quality, as you'd expect for £250 each. Voice quality was very good although there is a noticeable delay between transmission and reception. You say something one one radio and half a second or so later you can hear it coming out of the other radio. I don't think this would be an issue in most circumstances but it's a bit odd to get used to. The radio does not appear to have a VOX facility despite having headphone connections.

The chap in the shop told me that the range on digital is much further than on analogue. He gave an example where one of them went about 2 miles from the shop and was at the extreme range of the analogue part of the radio, they switched to digital and could continue talking for some further distance.

Russell.

Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 168 Location: Isle of Arran

qwe10730 wrote:

.... Voice quality was very good although there is a noticeable delay between transmission and reception. ....
Russell.

I thought that it would use a system similar to the analogue TV NICAM which only has a small delay but it must be a much higher compression like MP3. If you have access to a DAB radio put it next to an FM radio and you'll hear that there is about a two second delay. I personally think that order of delay is unacceptable, but as you say one would get used to it, even though it would feel like talking to the lunar lander.

Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 9

Yes it's exactly like the delay you get with a DAB radio. I was actually surprised at the audio quality too. I expected it to be a bit like a digital mobile phone, I have real difficulties hearing mobile to mobile conversations especially when the other person is in a noisy enviornment. But the Icom seemed pretty good even with what must be quite heavy digital compression.

It had lots of features like selective calling and status messages that I really couldn't think of any use for except in a business environment maybe. I thought that the lack of VOX was odd but maybe that's normal in business type radios. It certainly meant that they couldn't be used by me for cycle to cycle coms.

Russell.

Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 304 Location: IO91wc

I haven't checked on the digital radios, but on the Ham band handhelds vox is usually controlled through an accessory. And, checking on the manual, that can be found at www.icomuk.co.uk, you do indeed need to buy the accessory that allows you to use vox - a VS1.

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:18 am

This was passed onto me from someone, from some mailing list. I thought I'd post it here in case anyone's interested in the opinions.

Ian writes :

There is a nice introduction to Digital Mobile Radio (DMR) in
the latest edition of Radio Resource International magazine if
anyone is interested. DMR is a new standard for digital PMR supported
by Fylde , Icom , Motorola , Kenwood and Tait plus others. It all
sounds good having 3 tiers ..

1) Licence free digital 446 MHz PMR

2) Peer to peer and repeater modes for the professional market

3) A trunked mode

If anyone is interested you can download the standards documents
from the ETSI website which are TS 102 361-1 , -2 , -3 and -4.

I would be interested in the views of the list members on DMR. Its
just I have seen other digital PMR standards come and go usually
because they were either to expensive or ran into IP problems. What
do you think of DMR ? Could this be the digital PMR standard we have
been waiting for ?

Simon replies :

I'm told that it's perfectly capable of Tier 4, too. It's just that nobody likes to mention it in case it offends the sensibilities of the TETRA Mafia...
Not that it has much in the way of capability defined to handle TEA2, etc... But that's not too difficult to include.

DMR Tier 1 and 2 (mostly 2) is already in production. The IPR problems seem to have been sorted out but part of the solution is to use a 2kHz voice codec (as used on Iridium) that sounds (to me) like Stephen Hawking in a large plastic bucket full of water, but most people I talk to can't see what I'm getting on about. Mind you, they're mostly all DMR salesmen and I used to QA recording studio equipment...

I'm sure it's fine for everyday use. We'd be looking at Tier 3 and that's not yet available AFAIK.

Oh, it's 2-slot TDMA and for religious reasons I don't like TDMA so that's not exactly helping me like it.

Joined: 30 Sep 2005 Posts: 627

qwe10730 wrote:

The chap in the shop told me that the range on digital is much further than on analogue. He gave an example where one of them went about 2 miles from the shop and was at the extreme range of the analogue part of the radio, they switched to digital and could continue talking for some further distance.

Russell.

On the other hand he's a salesman with some expensive radios to flog. Its unlikely he'd say they're worse than analogue

Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 304 Location: IO91wc

boltar wrote:

On the other hand he's a salesman with some expensive radios to flog. Its unlikely he'd say they're worse than analogue

Except Martin Lynch & Sons like to keep their customers going back regularly to spend more and selling lemons to people that want oranges isn't going to do that! I went in to buy a rig for my car and they wouldn't sell me the one I wanted and told me why. I checked up on their comments and found that others had the same view of the rig I was contemplating. So I bought the one they recommended - similar price - and I haven't got any complaints about it at all.

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:28 pm

This week I will buy a pair of Motorola DTR2430 digital radio. They use 2,4 Ghz instead of 446. Review will follow!

Joined: 29 Oct 2005 Posts: 1373

westerhof wrote:

This week I will buy a pair of Motorola DTR2430 digital radio. They use 2,4 Ghz instead of 446. Review will follow!

What made you decide to opt for this model and what are you intending using them for?

Just out of curiosity...

Jon

Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 119

Went to visit Andy and Dale at tti today to buy a few bits and pieces and saw the Icom digitals.

I am sooooo tempted!!!

they do analog and digital in one package so they will be compatible with my old tti tx-1446 as well as digital comms.
will probably have a walk test to see how they perform but they promise to be a lot better than analog 446.

For Gods sake somebody stop me!!

HEEELLPP!!!!

Joined: 29 Oct 2005 Posts: 1373

Digital HAM gear....

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:14 pm

To replace some old pmr446 sets that I use to communicate with a friend of mine a few blocks away. I prefer secure communication and the ability to use sms. Why not the cheaper Icom digital? Just don't like the looks of it and it's not legal in the Netherlands yet.

2H2UZ wrote:

westerhof wrote:

This week I will buy a pair of Motorola DTR2430 digital radio. They use 2,4 Ghz instead of 446. Review will follow!

What made you decide to opt for this model and what are you intending using them for?

Just out of curiosity...

Jon